Whatsup like message delivered/seen information


#1

Hi,
in our distributed team is important to know whether person has read message or not. This is one of the reasons why we abandoned Rocket Chat before. Is this possible to create in this type of application?

Anyway, some indicators should be seen by message sender when it is delivered to devices and when it is read by recipients.


#2

Hi @imadam

I highly object to this kind of nudging (or at least to it being a default - as I see some applications for it in business use).

In non-business usecases such technical means of telling your communication partner that he/she has seen or read something is a presumptuous intrusion into my right to decide for myself when and how I reply to a message.

I decide when I answer! It is my time and my decision to reply even far later than when I read the message, yet those kind of nudging mechanisms try build social pressure to force me to answer ASAP. I detest such things to the max!

That being said: please! If you do introduce sth. like that, don’t make it the default!

Cheers
Thomas


#3

Hi,

different people, different requirements. This is for business only communication. As far as non-business, I don’t care. If I am running team across three continents and communication tool is defined as well as rules, I would like to know if you have seen message I am sending. Otherwise, I have to call you up and talk to you.
Optional, it is Ok for me if this is on server, channel basis. I should be able to deny participants to turn off this feature.


#4

Yeah… for business use I see a limited application, true. Yet also in business contexts I find it to be rather tedious, but that’s only my personal preference.


#5

It is much cheaper then international call :wink:


#6

True, but it also takes a toll on people’s self-organisation, as they are expected to answer as soon as they have read sth. And they are robbed of the possibility to decide for themselves when to reply and are faced with the need to

  • explain themselves why they decided not to answer right away
  • in the future will focus their attention to much on communicating or having a look at the messenger instead of their actual work

To me this is just totally unnecessary psychological pressure with debatable benefits.

Cheers
Thomas


#7

Yes, don’t make it the default!


#8

I don’t micromanage. I only need ACK from people that information I sent, has been seen so guy on other side can plan accordingly. Otherwise, I have to call each of them and spend my time, their time as well as phone cost in order to have all sides synced. I do not expect people to act right away. If I need that, there is a phone. I call.
I don’t know where you work or with whom are you communicating, but I don’t care whether seenor delivered status is, including my boss. If something needs immediate attention, I will call or call back. With Seen/Delivered status I know that message reached device. Otherwise, there is always doubt ;-)))


#9

In the end, I guess, this feature sure is worth being implemented. Yet I fear people turn it on and use it mindlessly. That might not be the case with you. I didn’t want to sound … too invested in this :smiley: I sure did.

The thing with surveillance is - and that’s roughly what this feature is - that people change their behaviour not only when you confront them with action resulting from that surveillance (“hey, why don’t you answer, you have seen the message!!”) but already when they know they are being watched (or could potentially be watched). This has been proven time and time again by studies.

Those are my final thoughts. I think I have made my point clear and now leave it up to the developers :slight_smile:

Cheers
Thomas


#10

I got 25y on my shoulders. Of experience. Never worked in environment as you have described :slight_smile: I guess, I am lucky guy. Let’s see what developer team think about this. All the best.


#11

From a privacy standpoint and pressure standpoint… I can understand exactly where you are coming from on this. If implemented users should be able to opt out.

On busy servers the pressure is already kind of there in the back of your mind to get all of your messages answered. If then once you read the message you had to respond right away because they would know you had seen it and deemed it not important enough to respond right away…

That would probably personally make me ignore the server all together until I had a big chunk of time. Kind of start treating it like email. Which I think would be unfortunate.

As to us implementing this… I know we’ve done some UI mockups. So might not be too far off.


#12

Hi, we tried RocketChat before. We liked it. Very much. This is the feature why we dumped RocketChat. In business environment (and I am only looking from business point of view) I don’t see what is problem with delivered or seen. “Seen” doesn’t mean you have to respond right away. At least in my world. If I need response in seconds, I use phone. I am old habit guy:slight_smile:

However, some people may take it the way you have described or rest of guys here. I found it very disturbing enviroment event IM can end up with this as email, as you said. However, you may thing about adding extra features on top of message when you can actually request respond right away. Different color coding, some kind of tag somewhere … I am planing to evaluate RocketChat again to see what is in there since we are not happy with current solution :frowning:


#13

Well that’s actually a pretty rad idea to add some kind of priority feature to messages, we should separate this into a different topic :slight_smile:

Cheers
Thomas


Priority feature for messages
#14

Here’s my take on it:

Cheers
Thomas


#15

@TwizzyDizzy sure, you can put another feature request. I agree with you and I would like to also add that in business enviroment, business is actualyl setting rules on mobile/desktop devices so users can’t change it :slight_smile:


#16

Seems like something is cooking in @diego.sampaio’s kitchen: https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/pull/9717

Cheers
Thomas


#17

Yep, but delivery receipt is still very important. I hope @diego.sampaio will add it in to backlog at least :slight_smile: Whatsup has sorted it out already :slight_smile:


#18

There we go it has surfaced :slight_smile:


#19

whatsapp architecture makes it easier to implement delivery receipts, since they don’t store the messages on their servers. you may have noticed telegram doesn’t have delivery receipts, our approach is pretty much like their =)


#20

Ok, however if this type of messaging is critical to business, then I have to be close to 100% sure that message has reached device. This is even more important to us then “Seen” or “Read” status. However, we may be 1 in 100 with this type of request. When I send message, I have to sure quickly that message has reached all devices it was sent to. That’s all. People will read it when they get to it. Today, for example, you can trust Skype anymore. Messages are lost, no reliable sync etc etc … If RocketChat is for noncritical business conversation then it is ok but I guess you are aiming much higher :slight_smile: